The whole Watchtower subliminal images conspiracy is mostly rubbish if you ask me. I think your time will be better spent reading up on pareidolia than looking for supposed subliminal images in Watchtower literature.
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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Demon Watchtower Subliminal Images
by artcritic inits a long time since i posted here.
time is hard to get to do the things you would like.
some of you may be wondering if the watchtower are still placing demonic images in their publications here is a link judge for yourselves.
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Talking to support and contacts at WT HQ
by Juan Viejo2 ini have a story to share about my calls to wt ny hq this past week.
i was quite surprised by the level of disinterest and lack of concern from the two contacts that i spoke to.
rather than jumping right in and sharing my experience - and perhaps "poisoning the well," i'd like to read experiences of others on this forum who had the urge or need to call the wt contact number.. btw - mine was not an apostate rant or overly critical of the wt and was presented in a friendly and helpful way.
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Island Man
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Has anyone heard any Watchtower PR spin or censorship advisory announcement at the kingdom hall regarding the child abuse story on NPR?
by Island Man ini remember some years ago when barbara did an expose of the child abuse issue on one of the networks, watchtower used the elders to inform the congregations not to view the program that was to be aired.
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after this recent expose on npr, has there been any official watchtower release read as an announcement at the kingdom hall?.
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Island Man
"The good things is that the broadcast has been picked up by other newspapers as well. Unfortunately only in the US, not in Europe."
You X-JWs in the US, please do not underestimate the reach of the US media. In my country - and I'm sure in many English-speaking third world countries - much of the programming on television comes from the US - the majority of the programming in many cases! Cable-TV is also widely available in many such countries and it is not just the upper and middle class homes that have cable. PBS is one of the cable channels available in my country in the Caribbean where many relatively poor people (by US standards) have cable in their homes! Here in my country we are very, very familiar with American culture because it's practically all we are exposed to on television! So do not think for a minute that many people outside the US haven't seen that PBS program. Futhermore, I will venture to say that JWs fall into the kind of demographic that is most likely to look at PBS! JWs typically complain about there not being good programs on TV except for violence and sexual immorality. They are most likely to look at documentaries and news programs - channels like PBS.
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Are we pro-shunning or against it?
by Simon injust to continue my theme about religious freedom and how we approach criticizing the wts, i've also been thinking about 'shunning'.. i think shunning is the most unifying complaint that most ex-members of religious groups that practice it have in common.
it is the layer that runs under every other complaint - whatever the reason for leaving it seems "... and i was shunned" can be added to it as the final rap on the charge sheet.. of course it seems like a no-brainer to many of us and we hardly ever stop to really think about it - shunning is bad, the watchtower believes in shunning therefore the watchtower is bad.
they need to stop it.
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Island Man
I don't think it's accurate to compare normal imprisonment with JW shunning. That simply isn't a fair and accurate comparison. As outlaw outlined there is a difference between confinement and JW shunning.
Persons confined are still able to communicate with their loved ones outside through phone calls and family visits. Also, prisoners are able to communicate with each other. By contrast JWs shunning means that the shunned cannot communicate with relatives (except in extreme circumstances of if they live in the same home) and the shunned are even told not to communicate with other shunned ones!
Clearly the social isolation that shunning brings is actually worse than the social isolation that comes with normal imprisonment. Only solitary confinement is comparable to JW shunning.
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Do You Think President Obama Is Muslim?
by minimus ini really think that he is.
not that it's a bad thing...
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Island Man
"my question is not conspiracy based. He seems very pro Muslim, more than any other politician that I know of."
Unlike most Americans, Obama lived a significant part of his childhood outside America. He was born in Kenya and I believe he also lived a while in Indonesia - a predominantly Muslim country. So Obama is likely familiar with Islam and Muslim people having lived among them for some time. I think this explains his apparent sympathy toward and defense of, Islam. I believe he is either Atheist or he's a liberal, non-aligned theist who doesn't think God can be confined to any one religion.
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Has anyone heard any Watchtower PR spin or censorship advisory announcement at the kingdom hall regarding the child abuse story on NPR?
by Island Man ini remember some years ago when barbara did an expose of the child abuse issue on one of the networks, watchtower used the elders to inform the congregations not to view the program that was to be aired.
.
after this recent expose on npr, has there been any official watchtower release read as an announcement at the kingdom hall?.
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Island Man
I know I said NPR in the OP but I really mean the whole spate of recent news on the JW child abuse cover up issue including what was aired on PBS. -
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CO has been coming to my door. Would like 1 or 2 solid and easy arguments.
by The Laser Viking ini am 6th generation.
i have been out for a few years.. back story on the situation:.
i had a co come by while going door-to-door in the neighborhood.
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Island Man
Another "proof" that the C.O. is likely to bring up is the house to house preaching work of JWs. 'Who else is doing that?' he may ask.
You simply tell him that there is not a single account in all the bible portraying Jesus or the apostles systematically going from house to house preaching to people at the door. All the narratives describe public preaching - the open outdoors, the marketplace, the synagogue, the temple, etc.
Interestingly, Jesus' own words at John 18:20 refutes the Watchtower suggestion that he ever went house to house preaching to people at their door.:
"Jesus answered him: “I have spoken to the world publicly. I always taught in a synagogue and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and I spoke nothing in secret. " - John 18:20
Jesus' direction to his apostles about greeting the household had nothing to do with preaching from house to house, Jesus was schooling them on finding a suitable place of lodging in the village or city that they went in to preach publicly. This is why he tells them not to transfer from house to house - he was telling them not to abandon the hospitality of a modest home owner to go to a more comfortable house.
The showing of hospitality was a privilege in bible times and this is why Jesus told his followers that in whichever village or city they entered, search out who is deserving [of the privilege of being their hosts] and stay there (i.e. lodge there as a guest) until they leave. Jesus did the same thing when he traveled from city to city. He would always stay at the home of someone. You can point to the account of when he went to Jericho and he found Zachaeus to be deserving of the privilege of hosting him. Others in the crowed took offence at Zachaeus - a tax collector - being given this privilege. (Luke 19:1-10)
The passing reference in Acts where Paul speaks about teaching and preaching from "house to house" is likely referring to him visiting one congregation after another. He traveled from congregation to congregation all of which convened in the private houses of believers. Thus his statement of teaching from house to house is essentially another way of saying he taught from congregation to congregation.
But the Greek text actually just says "kata oikon" ("according to house") and may simply mean "in private homes". The exact same Greek expression is used at Acts 2:46 where the NWT translates it as "in private homes". So the earlier Acts reference to the apostles preaching in the temple and "from house to house" (NWT) simply means they preached in the temple and in the homes of believers - at early congregation meetings where they met for prayer and the taking of meals together. (Acts 2:46)
All christian denominations are involved in preaching but not all use the method of house to house and the bible does not mandate the specific method of house to house. So it is dishonest of Watchtower and JWs to suggest that only they are involved in the preaching work. Additionally, the bible shows that, contrary to what JWs claim, not all christians are called to the work of being a formal public evangelizer:
"And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers," - Ephesians 4:11
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CO has been coming to my door. Would like 1 or 2 solid and easy arguments.
by The Laser Viking ini am 6th generation.
i have been out for a few years.. back story on the situation:.
i had a co come by while going door-to-door in the neighborhood.
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Island Man
Tell him that a careful examination of the history of the organization causes you to believe that it matches those Jesus warned not to go after, at Luke 21:8.
What you can do is read Luke 21:8 from the RSV and then draw to his attention that one of the early publications of JWs that contained many false end time predictions was a volume of Studies In the Scriptures entitled "The Time Is At Hand!"
Tell him you are very convinced that Watchtower matches Luke 21:8 and so you cannot in good conscience follow the organization when Jesus told his followers not to go after such ones. Here's a video worth watching to help you see what I'm saying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSYBUifr7Y0
Expect him to misuse Proverbs 4:18 to give the usual Watchtower propaganda cliche about the light getting brighter. Research the real meaning of Proverbs 4:18 so you will be prepared to refute this tired, worn out cliche. You can also respond to it by reading for him 2 Timothy 3:7 and Ephesians 4:14 and telling him that those texts more accurately describe the situation with JWs.
Expect him to also use Acts 1:6,7 where the apostles are asking Jesus if he's restoring the kingdom at this time, to suggest that the apostles had wrong expectations and were not condemned and the situation is the same with JWs. You can respond by telling him the situation is not the same with JWs. First, the apostles were not yet anointed with the holy spirit - the spirit of truth - so they had a good excuse for not fully understand all things. By contrast, the JW leadership has always claimed to be anointed during the times they taught falsehoods. Secondly, the apostles did not go throughout Jerusalem confidently publishing a false message about the kingdom being restored at that time, No. They humbly came to Jesus and asked him a question. This is very different from Watchtower confidently publishing its false predictions far and wide.
Expect him to also use an argument like this:
"Well who else has the truth? Where else can we go? Who is Jehovah's organization today? Jehovah has always had an organization so, if not JWs then who else?".
This is meant to in effect say that you should stick with JWs just because you can't think of or find a better alternative and/or that even though JWs have faults they're the least evil of all the churches in error.
The way to refute this is to simply ask him which organization Jehovah was using during the centuries since the apostasy and before C.T. Russel's time. He would have to admit that there was no God-approved organization on earth that time. Watchtower said as much in a recent study edition studied a few weeks ago at the Kingdom Hall.
Once this point has been made you then tell him that since true christians existed among the wheat for all those centuries without there being a God-approved organization then it is very plausible that there is still no true organization on earth today - only individual true christians existing in the midst of wheat. You can then mention Jesus' parable of the wheat and the weeds and mention how the wheat grow together with the weeds until the end, that Jesus never mentioned the wheat being transplanted to a different field free of weeds and growing there for a while before being harvested. Jesus mentioned the wheat being removed from the field (which pictures earth) to the storehouse (heaven). This shows that the separating comes at the very end when Jesus judges the wicked and brings the righteous anointed christians to heaven.
Mention that an honest reading of the parable indicates that there will not be any true organization just erroneous organizations with wheat and weeds in them, and the separating of the wheat and the weeds clearly comes at the very end during armageddon/great tribulation. Jesus never mentioned a restoration before the end, neither did Paul, when he spoke of the coming apostasy and the man of lawlessness.
He will probably retort by citing texts in Daniel that talk about the righteous roving about and true knowledge becoming abundant in the time of the end. The way you refute this is simple. You just state that many individual true christians are getting an accurate understanding of the bible and leaving Watchtower and other false religious organizations. Additionally, since we don't know exactly when the end will come there's no way of saying for certain that that text is undergoing fulfillment in the present. It may still be a text that is to be fulfilled further in the future before the end comes.
Tell him that Watchtower is stressing organization while the bible is not and the reason why Watchtower stresses organization is because they want to keep themselves relevant and keep all JWs dependent on them and giving them their time and money to keep the organization afloat. The organization is twisting scripture to serve its own interests.
Tell him that contrary to what Watchtower self-servingly says, a hierarchical organization headed by a small group of men is not required to accomplish the global preaching work. Jehovah and Jesus can see every corner of the globe and know exactly where the message needs to be preached. And so they can do all the organizing in heaven and implement on earth by using angels and holy spirit to direct individual true christians throughout the globe to preach when and where they wish. This is what the book of Acts shows. Jesus used holy spirit and angels to direct the preaching work - not a hierarchical organization of men.
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Has anyone heard any Watchtower PR spin or censorship advisory announcement at the kingdom hall regarding the child abuse story on NPR?
by Island Man ini remember some years ago when barbara did an expose of the child abuse issue on one of the networks, watchtower used the elders to inform the congregations not to view the program that was to be aired.
.
after this recent expose on npr, has there been any official watchtower release read as an announcement at the kingdom hall?.
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Island Man
I remember some years ago when Barbara did an expose of the child abuse issue on one of the networks, Watchtower used the elders to inform the congregations not to view the program that was to be aired.
After this recent expose on NPR, has there been any official Watchtower release read as an announcement at the kingdom hall?
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55
Are we pro-shunning or against it?
by Simon injust to continue my theme about religious freedom and how we approach criticizing the wts, i've also been thinking about 'shunning'.. i think shunning is the most unifying complaint that most ex-members of religious groups that practice it have in common.
it is the layer that runs under every other complaint - whatever the reason for leaving it seems "... and i was shunned" can be added to it as the final rap on the charge sheet.. of course it seems like a no-brainer to many of us and we hardly ever stop to really think about it - shunning is bad, the watchtower believes in shunning therefore the watchtower is bad.
they need to stop it.
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Island Man
Personally, I'm against shunning. And by shunning I'm referring to strict shunning as practiced by JWs, as opposed to merely avoiding someone who you prefer not to socialize with, but whom you will still casually greet and exchange a few words with out of basic human respect, should your paths happen to cross.
Speak to someone bad in a less than friendly manner, reminding them of what they are doing or have done wrong and the need to change or make redress. Do that instead of shunning them. To me, strict shunning as practiced by JWs, is both childish and inhuman.
I also think the punishment of solitary confinement is like the government's version of shunning, and I'm also very much against it. Humans are social beings and such treatments are inhumane.